Growing up, my knowledge of Yugoslavia was it was communist, like Albania, but not part of the USSR. In the 1990’s I realized how unique Yugoslavia was, and how Broz Tito was able to keep all these groups together. Authoritarian governments are lousy preparing for the future after the leader dies. That Kosovo is still standing is an example of people who want their own country, and are determined to be Kosovos and not just a group that lives there. That the U.S. played a major part in the country’s birth is an example of why the world looked up to America.
I am not a Tito supporter. It was still communism with its problems but it wasn't like Romania. From Romania we were looking at Yugoslavia thinking they had more than us but when you actually drive through ex Yugoslavia you can see the same ugliness in architecture and the same problems we had with one political party which left long lasting disfunction in politics and society. It was a functional federation which still didn't allow the freedoms from the West and Serbs were the bosses. It collapsed bad and the Serbs wanted to stay the bosses. This doesn't mean other ethnicities did not commit atrocities. They did. Complicated times in the Balkans... today as for a long time.
Like I said, I knew very little about the country until Tito died and it fractured. It wasn’t discussed in school why Yugoslavia could be communist but not part of the USSR. During the breakup, I learned a lot, and supported President Clinton’s foreign policy to that there be separate countries for those who wanted them. This put him in odds with Serbia, and I was glad, we didn’t support Serbia’s illegal claim over the region. As I said, I learned a lot about the area and its people, and you are so correct; it was, and is complicated in the Balkans.
Unfortunately Serbia hasn't made much to change and the cult of war criminals is still present and kicking. Plus they harbour all indésirables of the area, Romanian fugitives including. There are training bases for all kind of unwanted insurgences. Yet, as you describe, Yugoslavia was regarded as a haven by people living under atrocious communist regimes like Romania. I remember shopping in the 80s for "luxury" items with my parents in markets in the West of Romania, at the Yugoslav border. Serbians would sell all kind of "not to be seen" items for us. Like jeans, Coca Cola... and mechanical pencils with replaceable lead.
Yes, people who had to survive, shape and reshape identity under different empires. They speak the same language but call it different. It is one of the most fascinating and beautiful and culturally rich places in Europe. Those mountains are breathtaking beautiful. I spent some of my most wonderful summer holidays driving around on my way to the beach either in Croatia or Montenegro.
have read several books on the history of the Ottoman Empire and the Balkan Wars. "Balkanized" doesn't just mean fragmented, it also means incredibly confusing. Trying to keep straight of who is who and who was fighting whom can give one a headache. One thing that stands out, though, is that the Balkans have long been a cauldron of nationalism which accounts for it being known as “the powder keg of Europe”. Some things never die and nationalism is one of those “isms” that never dies.
As I was explaining, different people with different religions were incorporated in empires and countries for centuries. Not easy to stay independent and mind your own business in this part of Europe. One could live in the same village which never moved and had different nationalities during a lifetime: Ottoman, austro-hungarian, Serbian, Yugoslav. All emperors and leaders demanded loyalty from their citizens while waging war in the region. Therefore one would be forced and executed if they refused to fight against their own ethnicity and blood. It happened the same with Romanians from Transylvania under the Austro-Hungarian empire during WW2. Romanian ethnics were forced to fight against Romania which was part of the Antante. There is a famous book on this called The Forest of the hanged. The author's brother, Romanian and officer in the Austro-Hungarian army was executed for treason. Hanged... as many many others. And left to hang for the others to see and not try to run away. EU was created because of all the wars and madness Europeans were waging one against another.
Trump may call us all the bad names in the universe, America may despise our low way of taking action, our birocracy and all the rest of it. The biggest thing EU has achieved is to keep peace and unite us. I hope we have enough strength to put up with all the forces trying to destroy us and that one day all Weastern Balkans are part of the peaceful European family.
Growing up, my knowledge of Yugoslavia was it was communist, like Albania, but not part of the USSR. In the 1990’s I realized how unique Yugoslavia was, and how Broz Tito was able to keep all these groups together. Authoritarian governments are lousy preparing for the future after the leader dies. That Kosovo is still standing is an example of people who want their own country, and are determined to be Kosovos and not just a group that lives there. That the U.S. played a major part in the country’s birth is an example of why the world looked up to America.
And Kosovo still does! Even to Trump! I did not have the heart to disabuse them
Probably a good idea. They wouldn’t believe you!
I am not a Tito supporter. It was still communism with its problems but it wasn't like Romania. From Romania we were looking at Yugoslavia thinking they had more than us but when you actually drive through ex Yugoslavia you can see the same ugliness in architecture and the same problems we had with one political party which left long lasting disfunction in politics and society. It was a functional federation which still didn't allow the freedoms from the West and Serbs were the bosses. It collapsed bad and the Serbs wanted to stay the bosses. This doesn't mean other ethnicities did not commit atrocities. They did. Complicated times in the Balkans... today as for a long time.
Very true, having been to both just after communism
Like I said, I knew very little about the country until Tito died and it fractured. It wasn’t discussed in school why Yugoslavia could be communist but not part of the USSR. During the breakup, I learned a lot, and supported President Clinton’s foreign policy to that there be separate countries for those who wanted them. This put him in odds with Serbia, and I was glad, we didn’t support Serbia’s illegal claim over the region. As I said, I learned a lot about the area and its people, and you are so correct; it was, and is complicated in the Balkans.
Unfortunately Serbia hasn't made much to change and the cult of war criminals is still present and kicking. Plus they harbour all indésirables of the area, Romanian fugitives including. There are training bases for all kind of unwanted insurgences. Yet, as you describe, Yugoslavia was regarded as a haven by people living under atrocious communist regimes like Romania. I remember shopping in the 80s for "luxury" items with my parents in markets in the West of Romania, at the Yugoslav border. Serbians would sell all kind of "not to be seen" items for us. Like jeans, Coca Cola... and mechanical pencils with replaceable lead.
Yes, people who had to survive, shape and reshape identity under different empires. They speak the same language but call it different. It is one of the most fascinating and beautiful and culturally rich places in Europe. Those mountains are breathtaking beautiful. I spent some of my most wonderful summer holidays driving around on my way to the beach either in Croatia or Montenegro.
have read several books on the history of the Ottoman Empire and the Balkan Wars. "Balkanized" doesn't just mean fragmented, it also means incredibly confusing. Trying to keep straight of who is who and who was fighting whom can give one a headache. One thing that stands out, though, is that the Balkans have long been a cauldron of nationalism which accounts for it being known as “the powder keg of Europe”. Some things never die and nationalism is one of those “isms” that never dies.
As I was explaining, different people with different religions were incorporated in empires and countries for centuries. Not easy to stay independent and mind your own business in this part of Europe. One could live in the same village which never moved and had different nationalities during a lifetime: Ottoman, austro-hungarian, Serbian, Yugoslav. All emperors and leaders demanded loyalty from their citizens while waging war in the region. Therefore one would be forced and executed if they refused to fight against their own ethnicity and blood. It happened the same with Romanians from Transylvania under the Austro-Hungarian empire during WW2. Romanian ethnics were forced to fight against Romania which was part of the Antante. There is a famous book on this called The Forest of the hanged. The author's brother, Romanian and officer in the Austro-Hungarian army was executed for treason. Hanged... as many many others. And left to hang for the others to see and not try to run away. EU was created because of all the wars and madness Europeans were waging one against another.
Trump may call us all the bad names in the universe, America may despise our low way of taking action, our birocracy and all the rest of it. The biggest thing EU has achieved is to keep peace and unite us. I hope we have enough strength to put up with all the forces trying to destroy us and that one day all Weastern Balkans are part of the peaceful European family.